This week we're joined by Dean Blundell to talk about his newest venture: Crier Media. It's the best way to find all the blog and podcast content you love from Dean's network, all in one place, but it's also a lot more than that. It's a cooperative of podcasters, writers, bloggers, and all kinds of folks from the radio industry who got sick of seeing big radio companies prioritize the wrong things. The Sound Off Media Company partnered with Dean a few years ago and manage the podcast side of their business and collaborate on marketing.
Crier Media wants to shift the focus back to the talent, and give them a springboard to do whatever they want with their own content. We talk with Dean about why he started Crier, as well as how it ties into his storied and controversial history with radio and his podcast. He calls it being a responsible citizen- no guidelines for what can and can't be covered, no fear of taking risks because some corporate bigwig is afraid of losing profits, just digging as deep as you need to on stories that need to be told.
This discussion inevitably leads us to talking about Caryma Sa'd, who works with Dean regularly and who we both agree is awesome. The best place to follow her is on Twitter, but you can also check out her website, carymarules.com. And hey, you can find her posts on Crier, too!
And, of course, it wouldn't be a Sound Off Podcast episode with a former radio personality without copious discussion about the inevitable death of radio. But we're not just ragging on it needlessly- a lot of Dean's reasons for starting Crier are tightly tied into the problems radio is facing. From personalities taking the backseat to radio stations broadly sucking wind when it comes to transitioning to podcasts, we talk about all the things that made Dean sick enough to start his own place for the lost and forgotten souls of radio to feel at home again.
It should go without saying that you should check out Crier Media, but that goes double if you're a broadcast industry vet looking to start doing your own thing. Head to their website, Crier.co, or shoot an email to info@crier.co and they'll see what they can do for you. You should also follow Dean in all the usual places: DeanBlundell.com, Twitter, YouTube, and Instagram.
Transcript:
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:00
I hate video. You know I hate video, Dean. Why do you make me do video?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:00:06
Because it's good for you. It's good for your brand. It's actually the best thing you can do for your brand. You know that.
Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:00:06
The Sound Off Podcast. The podcast about broadcast with Matt Cundill starts now.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:00:21
This week, I invited Dean Blundell back on the show to discuss the launch of his brand new company, Crier Media. As a matter of disclosure, the Soundoff media company- that's my company- handles the podcast network and works with their people, the same way a radio consultant works with talent to grow audience. Dean's show has been in production since 2018, and it's not everyone's cup of tea. The show was at the focal point of the Freedom Convoy, which took place in February 2022 in Ottawa. The show offered a long form view from the nonsensical side of the protest. By the way, this episode has been repurposed for audio. A live version of this conversation was recorded on January 31, 2023, and it resides on YouTube, Facebook, and a few other places. But I like to repurpose these things for your ears. That's just the way I roll. Dean Blundell joins me from Crier Media headquarters in the center of the Universe, Toronto, Ontario. By the way, welcome back to the Sound Off podcast. We're actually putting this up on YouTube and a bunch of other places, including the newly formed Crier Media. And congratulations on the launch of that.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:01:27
Oh my God, what a day. I'm really happy about it.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:30
I love working with all your people. They're fantastic.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:01:33
That makes me feel good, because I don't think we've ever had that conversation. How do you like working with all our people, man? Sorry for dumping them in your lap, but we needed some professional help and you were the best guy in Canada to do it. Can you do it? Sure. That's great. That happens for a year and a half, two years and I'm like, I haven't even asked you how it's going yet, so sorry.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:01:52
Well, I think we elevated a lot of people who were starting up in podcasting, and got them going in the right direction.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:01:58
Yeah, well, of course you did. I mean, that's kind of the currency for people in broadcasting now, right? Or people like you. I mean, it's so hard to find people that want to do content and want to help you produce it. And it's really hard in this digital space to find people who can actually touch all the right kind of keystrokes and know exactly what has to happen for you to be pretty successful. And it's very different coming out of radio, obviously, we've talked about that a million times, so man, we're just lucky to be working with people like you. Guys like Envision, guys like Jack over at Diner Agency. And we put together a good group of people at Crier Media, so we're pumped.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:38
A lot of people said, why would you get together with Dean Blundell? And I said, Because we need to give people a chance. And certainly we don't need to give you a chance, Dean, but we need to give all the people that you work with sort of a chance to succeed in podcast and from your side, on the video side of creating content.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:02:53
They ask you that?
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:54
Yeah, there are people who-.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:02:57
Really? What do they say?
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:02:57
Well, you probably owe them money, for one.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:03:00
I don't owe anybody money. It's like one of the only things that's good about me. I'm debt free. Really, people ask you that, huh? What do they say when you're like, I'm working with Dean and we're working on this project, Crier media, what do they say? Because obviously I come with some really interesting narratives.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:03:16
So I think a lot of people do that because they see your Daily Show. Your Daily Show, which we'll talk about in just a second, for those who haven't connected with it yet, it's a lot. But then there are other people that you work with who are not a lot like that. They're just doing regular podcasts. So I think when people see your show and they see DeanBlundell.com, they're going to assume that every content creator is out stoking the Freedom Convoy or tracking down Dr. Peterson, amongst other things that you're up to these days.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:03:46
Oh, that's what you meant when you said a lot. Yeah, when you said a lot is tracking down Jordan- We did that yesterday. And I get that. I get that I'm not for everybody and that's really not my concern. We do what we do and if people want to latch onto it, that's great, but we have a bunch of people that do what I do, right, and as do you. As do we in this kind of network of people that love making digital content, is that there's something for everybody, right? And I think that that's really kind of when you go back to the original statement that you made, why did we start Crier Media? I think the same reason why we reach out to each other and ask for help, right? And in this space, because it's really still the wild west of podcasting and monetizing podcasts and amplifying podcasts, even calling them podcasts, sounds weird to me. These are shows. This is content that people do, right? There's so many people out there that are being fleeced out of traditional. There are a lot of people out there that just are really great creators. There are people out there who don't know the right people and can't get into these spaces where they are considered journalists or videographers or content creators or production experts or musicologists, whatever the situation is. The Internet kind of bore that out, right? All of us anyway. We can't sit here and claim that we are what we are or we are in some kind of space and we're some kind of label or we're some kind of whatever title you want to give yourself if you're someone that produces content but depending on who you produce it for, you've been considered legitimate or not. But those walls are gone, right, Matt? I mean, we talk about that all the time.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:05:24
Glad you mentioned that about it. It's a podcast, but you're right, it's a show. And actually I'm rebranding the the the Sound Off podcast little bit. It's going to be- used to be the podcast about broadcast, and now really, if you've paid attention to it over the last few years, it's really the show about podcast and broadcast.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:05:40
But have you had to morph that in terms of- and this is just a quick aside, but when you decide you're going to repivot, and you can do- that's the beauty of podcast, you can do that anytime you fucking want. But did you do that because you're like, man, the things around me are changing. So I have to change the focus of my show, like the focus of media in this country, in Canada, North America, the world, the focus of media has changed so much. Did you have to change the focus of your podcast? Or you're like, man, I just want to do this.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:06:06
I'm looking at the people who come on the show, and most of them don't have very much to do with broadcast. And you look down, up and down the stream of who's coming on the show. And I'd love to have a radio person on every week and talk radio, but that's a dwindling number as well. I don't think that the person who is voice tracking ten shows with the same content, the same bits and recording them and dumping them down has a lot to contribute to radio going forward, so. Not bringing them on.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:06:37
This is like such a weird time. Like, I was talking a buddy of mine the other day who's in LA. His name is Paul Feinstein, and he's the head travel writer for Fodors. He's like an author. He's like a super travel guy. He's one of the best dudes on the planet. He's part of, actually, the network. He's got a podcast called the Paul Cast. You can check it out at Crier.co. But I was talking to him the other day and we were talking about people that do their content, and the way that content is changing with travel. Travel has changed so much that all of his stuff has changed too, right? And he's like, that's the beautiful part of this space, is that as things change around us, we get to change and talk about it, right? We get to have the narrative in this time. And I think that that kind of speaks to why I love what I do. And why I think maybe you love what you do, is that when you're in this weird wild west, sort of- because we're in the frontier territory of digital content, despite the fact we've been doing it for, well, for 10, 15 years as a society. And we've seen the usurping of traditional media outlets like print, television and radio, and equilibrium has arrived financially in those spaces in relationship to digital. But we look at it and we go, oh, there's so much to learn. And I look at it and I go, oh, my God, we are at the fucking forefront of online space technology, and we have a chance to be the first people through that door. And I'm amazed at how many people that are doing this kind of content look at it like it's a fucking burden to learn how to hashtag your podcast. Like it's a burden to learn new technology. It's a burden to be able to- we want to switch what we're doing, but we can't because we're so far behind in the digital space. But for people that really- like yourself, who left traditional media because you saw the writing on the wall. People like ourselves who've really kind of just said no to the opportunities in the traditional space because we see where the future is. We know what the upside of digital content is and how much easier it is to be able to get it to people's hands, and how it's not governed or guarded by the fences of geography. How you can just put your shit anywhere and people will watch it. And if you know what you're doing, a lot of people will watch it. A lot of people will listen to it. I find it cool that way. And I think people like you, and us and I think a few other people that have really embraced the learning curve here, these are the people that are succeeding, right? And it's unfortunate because in that traditional space, the entire industry has that "it's too hard to learn" attitude. And it's fucking wild out there, because all I do is work with people that want to do this stuff. All I do is work with people who go, man, I want to be my own boss. I want to have the autonomy of the content I create. I want to be able to push myself out there, and I want partners that can kind of help me make money, amplify my voice, amplify my brand, help me grow, get more clicks, get more subs. User acquisition is what they call it in the space. And that's kind of where we have to be, where I have to be, and I think where, generally speaking, most people that are doing digital content have to be. And I'm sorry that I've evangelized and vamped for the past, like seven to nine minutes, but I believe in it. And I believe that's why we are doing what we're doing. That's why people like you and I get along. That's why we help each other. That's why we work together, because nobody has these answers. We're all figuring them out at the same time because it's the final frontier of digital content. I fucking love it, Matt. Like, love it.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:10:07
So I've got a comment here from someone who says, weren't you kicked out of the traditional space? Well, weren't we all kicked out of the traditional space? And isn't the traditional space sort of gone?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:10:19
Wasn't I kicked out of the traditional space? Yeah, I was, and I've got no problem with it. It was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. And last, I think, fall, 750 people at Bell got kicked out of the traditional space, and 300 people at Rogers got kicked out of that traditional space, because that traditional space doesn't work anymore. And when I got kicked out, I was still really good at it, and it mattered. And when you say kicked out, I got fired. I mean, we could happily talk about that, too, because it's all part of the story. It's all part of everybody's narrative, is your past and your present and your future, and you embrace it, and it doesn't matter, right? But, yeah, I've had, I don't know, seven to ten opportunities to get back into it, and I've said no to all of them because that's not the future. I mean, no one's in it. No one does it. No one has it. No one has that ability to give me what I need to be successful in that space. I hate shitting on radio for the sake of shitting on it, just because it was my chosen profession for a long time and made a lot of money in it. Because it was good to me. I had a good time in it. But it's technologically mature. It's not going to get better. It is going to get worse. There is no future for radio unless somebody looks at radio and says, hold it. We need to include this in what we are doing. It can't be the purpose of why we do what we do as a media company. It just has to be an addendum to it. And then you have to use it to do a few other things that I don't like talking about because people pay us to tell them that stuff. So anyway, that's where I'm at.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:49
Remind me, who had more broadcast violations? Was it you or Jerry Forbes?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:11:54
It was me.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:11:55
It was you?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:11:56
Yeah. I don't even know how that works. I think there were, like, nine to eleven CBSC- no, CRTC adjudications.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:04
It's the CBSC.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:12:06
Oh, is it CBSC?
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:12:07
They would basically, with the panel, they would look at your complaint and go, yeah, this is in violation. Say sorry.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:12:13
Yeah. And then if you got enough of those, they'd be like, we're going to take away your radio station license. For what? For telling jokes that were too awesome. That's what they do. And that's again, I mean, the disadvantage that they give themselves in that medium, which is- let's be total pricks. Let's have this mechanism called the CBSC and use it to be pricks that we don't like in the business, and use it to judge people's character. Not the content, just the character. And it's silver. That's their disadvantage as well. That was one of the things we laughed about when radio put out their- You and I, I think, had a great fucking laugh about this when you called me. You're like, hey, Seen the new radio guidelines? And I'm like, no, I haven't seen them. And you're like, 23 years. You know what the changes are? You can own maybe one or two more radio stations. They're suggesting they play more music. And I'm like, what about the language? And you're like, what do you mean? Can you swear on the radio yet? Have they decided to let people give them that competitive advantage, have they decided to remove the CBSC and the CRTC so people can fucking do content? You're like, no, that was it. It took them 23 years to say, you can buy one more radio station and status quo. And I'm like, Fuck, of course. And I don't care. Like, it's funny. I don't spend any time talking to people about the problems the radio has anymore in terms of governance or regulations and how those hurt them and give everybody else in this space a massive competitive advantage. I don't talk about that stuff. I just laugh now, because it's unfortunate, because people are just deciding that they don't want to be a part of a solution for a really fucking cool business still. It's not the same, but it can still be very cool.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:51
How do you describe the show you're doing now?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:13:53
A ratatouille of sorts?
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:13:55
Yes, that would be one way. I think it starts at is it 03:00 Eastern?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:14:01
Whenever we want. Yeah.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:14:03
Kind of like this show today. You were, like, a few minutes late. You're wandering in. We'll see what happens. I might do- I start on time.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:14:09
I know. Sorry, buddy. I apologize. I'm very sorry. How would you describe it now? I don't know. I mean, we kind of talk about the things that I think that a lot of people don't want to discuss. I think we go hard in the paint on a couple of issues on an ongoing basis where we'll dip into the responsibility that we have as citizens to each other, but we try to have fun with it, and I think that that's really kind of what we do. The show that I used to do or the shows that I used to do are irrelevant and always will be, especially when you consider where you're going and where you need to be today and the sensibility of how you feel as a different individual. So I have no desire to kind of go back and redo more wacky Morning Zoo shit, but I have a desire to do content that is humorous, that makes a difference for the greater good, where you can kind of smell the character. You can see that the people that are involved in what you're doing or trying to make a bit of a difference, trying to be accountable at the same time, trying to push some boundaries and trying to have fun and really talking about the things that don't get talked about. I had a boner for a long time when I was in traditional media about how immoral amoral actually is a better word valueless that industry is how they treated people like assets, like shit, like garbage, like legitimately treat people like garbage. And traditional media, it's always happened, it's always been a problem and I was part of it. I enjoyed the privilege of whatever that industry was and so I try to do the opposite of that now. When we do content and we try to point out the valueless, individuals and the danger that they might serve to you and the people around you. We try to tell the truth about not just industry. We try to tell the truth about politics. We try to ascertain intentions. We try to have fun when we talk about the really hard shit because there's a lot of hard stuff that's happening. So we try to be an outlet but also we try to explain things to people, try to educate people in terms of disinformation. We try to educate people in terms of why society is under this incredible transition period because it is. We're a pretty divided group and this happens every 75 to 100 years generationally. We go through these things where a massive group of people is like you know what, fuck you and everybody else pushes back and we divide. So in the time of our time it's important to me that we offer a little bit of a solution to it when it comes to common sense and when it comes to what people are seeing out there and trying to kind of cut through the kiff of disinformation misinformation. But we try to fund while we do it. We've built podcasts where we'll talk about everything from how much better muscle Lachlan needs in his diet to the real intentions of Rebel News and why they use disinformation to try and steal from people. We'll also talk about the Toronto Maple Leafs and their historic run with two less than stellar goaltenders. And we'll get into some basketball, we'll get into hockey, we'll get in whatever. I mean it doesn't really matter what it is. And I also feel like chasing down assholes with what we do too because I can do whatever I want. So we chase down guys that have a negative impact on society. Jordan Peterson is one of them. You mentioned him out of the gate. I can't stand the man's teachings. So we try to make sense out of that. And do we shit on people a little too much as a result. Yeah, we do. But we don't do it just to shit on people. We definitely take a run at assholes. So if that's the explanation that you needed and you can put that in like a mission statement for a podcast, that would be it. I know it's a lot.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:17:45
Two of the first words you mentioned were responsible citizenship, which I think is pretty important. And I think a lot of your show is built around that. I'm sure people can argue about what that definition is, but I think that's a great way to summarize a year ago what your show is all about. When the trucker convoy took place, you were actually on the street with people on the ground, going through the convoy, and doing it in a long form way with individual stories. You would let both sides tell their stories. In fact, there was really only one side. Actually, there was like 100 different sides, depending on who you ask. There was 100 different reasons why are you here? And it was 100 different reasons for why people were here.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:18:24
My mom came. I'm just a babysitter. My dad told me I had to be here. All that stuff.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:18:32
You never had more downloads, though, than you did a year ago. You were filling a void.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:18:37
I know, and we saw that. And it's funny. You can take from that kind of stuff. Oh, I'm some kind of fucking hero here. Look at me. No, we never did. Because it also came with some downside, like 1400 death threats when all that happened. And I look at it like analytics. I looked at it like, what's not happening with content that makes this important to people? When we were doing those podcasts from Ottawa, and we had criminals wading through the crowd, and we were at it all fucking three weeks trying to explain it to people because I needed to understand it. You know what I mean? It was kind of one of those fuck, I need to understand who these people are, where they came from, and what their intentions are. But I'm like that with everything, right? I'm like that with learning the digital space. I was like that with radio when I first got into radio. I'm like I think that's why a modicum of success is I had to understand how it works and what the advantages were and who had the advantages and how they got them. And then I wanted to repeat those, but also come up with my own strategy to do so. And strategically, we live in a digital space where alt right, anger, hatred, alt left the extremes of our society. And I'm very centrist, or at least I try to be, really kind of captivate the audience that people want, that monetized audience people really need to have on their side to be able to curate a believable narrative on social media or the news I mean, we don't get real news. We never really did. But we wanted to not be responsible for the ongoing confusion and the psychopathy that disinformation and misinformation caused. And it would surprise a lot of people to know how many websites, how many blogs like ours, specifically, in the early days, before we achieve any modicum of success, we're approached by lobby, groups, individual agencies, a guy representing agencies from different countries to give us money in return for writing their stories. And we had a conversation with someone in law enforcement, and they said about 80% of blogs like ours, which was Dean Blundell at the time, was a compromised blog, meaning it had taken money from a foreign entity with or without knowledge of the intention of the people that gave the money, whether it's funding, whether it's advertising, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And that bothered me. Like, it bothered me to the point- and this is a couple of years ago- it bothered me to the point where I'm like, we can't do that. I can't have to serve two masters here. We can't be serving the interest of easy money and doing misinformation or disinformation for people on the right or people on the left or the Chinese government, that was a fun one, or any other entity that's trying to push some kind of religious, antivax lying, bullshit narrative or trying to create more confusion in this world. And so we just decided that we weren't going to do any of that. And it was early. And then the more I saw the way that disinformation had kind of created this chasm between people that wanted to have a good life on both sides, the more I saw the intention of it, the more fucking angry I got. And I'm still actually angry about it. I think about companies and corporations like Rebel News or Canada Proud, anybody that has the opportunity to communicate with someone and they choose to communicate that kind of vitriol and hatred for the express purposes of A, taking money from somebody, or B, curating influence on behalf of whatever group. I mean, we don't have to go too far to see what those groups are, but at the same time, I wouldn't be able to. I know how I look at Rebel, Canada Proud. I know how I look at those agencies. I know how I look at people that are duplicitous, like super fucking duplicitous in this space, and there are a lot of them, and they have no respect. I mean, there's a reason why nobody respects The Toronto Sun and the Post Group of companies or Post Media Group of companies, because this is what they do. There's a reason why nobody likes traditional media and mainstream media anymore. There's a reason why mainstream media has a trust score of 23% as I sit here today, down from, like, 69% sweet number five years ago. So, I mean, we're just trying to take advantage of all the opportunities that are out there. And the opportunity out there is to be a good fucking human being, inform people, entertain people and do it with really good character and try to fucking make a positive difference in and around your purpose and what you're trying to do, and it will be successful. And it is. I said that to someone yesterday. I'm like, I can't believe fucking being a good human being and doing your best for the people around you and filling a void works. It's like, yeah, it fucking works.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:03
A lot of people may not be high up on the media literacy chart, but they can certainly smell a hedge fund and corporate shareholders when the media is dull to them, which speaks to the all time low that you were just talking about.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:23:15
And here's a question I would ask you. Didn't they create this? Didn't they create guys like you and me, guys like Jeff Bollinghall, whether or not you love them or hate them, guys like Ezra, I mean, they created this. They created this by being lazy. And they created all the good and the bad, you know, the people like us that are bubbling up underneath them, destroying their processes, and the fact that we understand that it's all a house of cards and it's going to end soon. Do you not agree that the way that they've treated people, the way that they've not evolved technically, technologically, the way they haven't decided to do the right thing via human beings, I mean, that's kind of what it comes down to, does it not?
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:23:52
It erodes- they've eroded all that made them. There was a great comment in the blog I saw yesterday where somebody said, Well, I don't listen to radio. This was a gen z. I don't listen to radio. And then you scratch them enough and, well, I do listen to the morning show. I do know that person. And radio is really about personalities now more than it is about music. Don't argue with me, because we've got the data for that. Because music, you can get it anywhere. And now it comes down to personality. It doesn't seem like traditional media is very interested in investing in personalities because it costs money. Which is why you'll see a billboard saying, Check out Laura on Mornings. Who the fuck is Laura? Laura in the morning. That was the billboard. They spent money for that.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:24:33
And I feel sorry for Laura. I don't even know her. No, I know, but there are so many Laura's, right? There are so many fucking people out there who are literally trapped in that industry. It's like being on the outside of a bubble going, how can we help these people out? That's what I think when I see Laura. And before I would go, They've got my job, they took my job. I should be on the radio. Nobody should be on radio anymore. Nobody. Radio should be the end result of your ecosystem. It's exactly what it should be, but they continue to. And you and I obviously know the players involved in Toronto. They just did this morning show shuffle with three stations. One I used to work at, and I wish them the best. All of them. All the people involved in radio, all the people that have made life changes for that business, all the people that are still in it. But, man, they're going to turn the lights off soon. Like, they're really going to turn the lights off soon. And it will be in small markets with AM stations that cost so much money to maintain. It's dead technology. Don't need it. You've got a phone in your hand.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:25:38
In just a second, more with Dean, as we discuss the mission statement for Crier Media. If you're a content creator and want to retain your intellectual property, there are solutions for you. And just who is Caryma Sa'd, and why is she all over social media? There's more. There's always more. Including a transcript of this episode at soundoffpodcast.com.
Sarah Burke (Voiceover) 00:26:00
Transcription for the Sound Off podcast is powered by Poddin. Your podcast is an SEO goldmine. We help you to dig out. Start your free trial now at Poddin dot I-O.
Tara Sands (Voiceover) 00:26:12
The sound off podcast.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:26:12
By the way, you mentioned Caryma.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:26:16
Yeah.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:26:17
Okay, so here's what I know, and you tell me if I got her right. Lawyer with a GoPro and a scooter who films weird people, and somehow this is a lightning rod for something. Can you explain this to me?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:26:31
I can, actually. And thank you for asking. Caryma's awesome, by the way.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:26:36
She's awesome.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:26:37
One of the great human beings you'll ever meet. I met lots of people, worked with lots of people. She is most valued, virtuous, kind, accepting, unbiased, loving human being I've ever met in my life. She's also a killer. Like, an absolute killer, because she has no fear. And Caryma was a lawyer. I interviewed her right at the start of the Pandemic, and it was about- I don't know. Fuck, I can't remember what it was about. I just thought she was awesome because she was the head of Normal, which is like a cannabis advocacy company, too. She smokes a ton of pot. She's just cool. And I'm like, Fuck, I want to talk to her. So I started talking to her, started interviewing her. Then she started going out and doing these things on weekends, and I started just posting them on the website. At the time, it was DeanBlundell.com. It was like black and yellow. And I'm like, this is awesome content. Look at her. She's talking to people, doing these crazy person parades. At the time, I had no idea what they were, right? They were just people who didn't want to get vaccinated. I'm like, oh, this will last couple of weeks, like most of these movements do. It's been going on for two years. And in that two years, she and I decided, like, literally a day before the convoy, I guess we better work together on this. And she's like, okay. We had 200 million impressions that month. We did, I don't know, 10 million page views that month. We did- which are important. We doubled our user base in a month. She did the exact same thing. And what happened after that? And this is what happens when you do a good job and you become important to a narrative. And other people that think that they can do what you're doing, they get mad at you. That's what's going on with Caryma. Caryma is so good at what she does because she is so capable as a Gonzo journalist, as a lawyer. She is so incredibly smart, that she went up the middle. And if you can use a football term, there's a little bit of a run pass option up the middle. And she destroyed an industry of journalists who sat back, had commentary, didn't say anything, and she went right into the lion's den. So in the case of the convoy, do you remember all the CTV reporters reporting from, like, a building above the actual convoy? She went right into the convoy with her scooter and her camera and just started talking to people.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:28:42
No, I will preface that Graham Richardson from CTV did not. He did go through the middle.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:28:46
Some people did a little bit. But generally speaking, after Caryma started getting millions of views on her videos because the world became enamored with this convoy, which was total bullshit, every single news outlet started doing the same thing. They started sending Annie Oliver, Bergeron in, exactly the same all the other people. So she really started to change how people did that job because she wasn't attached to anybody. There's no liability for her. She just went in and did the gig. Right? Again, another huge problem that traditional media has. However, back to Caryma. That pissed off a lot of people, and pissed off people on the right, and it pissed off people on the left. It pissed off right leaning news sites like Rebel News. They discounted her. They treated her like shit. But over the past, I would say, two to three months, she's been really targeted by the left. And the reason why she's been targeted by the left is because, again, we have an unaccountable disinformation ecosystem that is fucking prevalent in Canada. And one of those information ecosystems, which is almost pure bullshit, is the Canadian Anti Hate Network. That is a left leaning lobby group collaring company that Caryma has been harassed by civilly and criminally for, like, two years, because she tried to interview Chris Sky. So some of the proxies from the Canadian Anti Hate Network- so now the right hates her, the left hates her. Right? Which is really the systemic issue that we have right now in Canada. Kind of just an example of it, is that you've got people on the right and people on the left, but in those camps, you've got extremists. You've got people who are willing to fucking just trade it all in. Their pride, their reputation, their employment future and history. They're willing to trade in anything they can to be someone in their fucking community of morons. And I believe that to be true, and it is. So she's somehow been able to not only piss off people in that industry who would like to see her fail, because she's much better at it than them. She's pissed off the left because she doesn't put up with their fun and games and their bullshit with the Canadian Anti Hate Network. And she's pissed off the right because she shows everybody's work, right? She just shows up and shows everybody's work. So she's become a target because there are so many assholes out there that don't want you to see their bad work, the bad things that they do, and all she's done is show them, and she's become a rock star as a result. And you won't meet someone with less fear than that woman. I'm in awe of the places that she goes and what she chooses to do for content, because I got to tell you, I would not do any of it.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:31:15
So one of the things I really like about what you've done is you've gone and you've found people who would not normally find their way, I don't think ten years ago, some of the characters and some of the personalities that you have on these shows and podcasts, people like James DiFiore and Ryan Lindley, I'm not sure that they necessarily find their way into a radio station or on the air, but they will get on with Crier Media because it's pretty open space.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:31:42
Isn't that how it should be? Isn't that what we call merit based? Isn't that what we should be doing? All the things that the media landscape in this country, and it is really exclusive to this country. Canada is a terrible, terrible country when it comes to media. How they treat people, what they think is important. The United States is not. In Canada, we hate our stars, because we do not want our stars. It is fatal for the stars, for your traditional outlet, to become bigger than you, more important than you, more nuclear than you. And Lisa LaFlamme proved that. I believe, in large part, I proved that. Quietly, but I did. I think a lot of people in those spaces are proving it now, because that industry just has gotten rid of any high priced star that moved any needle, because they don't care. They don't want that. They want a profit take. They don't want to be the biggest. They don't want to be the best. They just want to be the safest company that's able to generate a little bit of money out of dead technology. And that is fucking brutal. That is a terrible way to treat people. So when we started doing what we did, which was create Crier, we did it because people out there, and there were way more of them, needed a solution to get in here, right? They needed everything from microphone- You know this. Dude, we fucking work together every day. They need to know how to fucking plan a podcast. They need to know how to build one. They need to know how to brand one. They need to know how algorithms work. They need to know how algorithms work on all different platforms. And it is such a fucking mountain to climb, that we created this ecosystem of people that have already climbed the mountain, that are willing to help people to do that. We've also created an ecosystem that helps people monetize those things. So we've got an agency as part of Crier Media because those are solutions that we needed. So we had to scale them for people. Because no one's willing to do that in traditional media. They're looking to get rid of those stars. We're looking to empower them all. And I don't care if you think you're a star or not. You come out of that industry, you know this, Matt. Like you know nothing when you get into this shit, it's like fucking ground zero. You're like a baby. And there's no one out there trying to help those people. And so we decided that we would. And that's what this is.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:34:01
So I put the question, it was actually one of the things I had on my list, Why is Canada so bad at building personalities and stars? I would like to say that Quebec does a good job of it. They are exempt from this question because they know how to do it. Why are we so bad at this? Is it a regional thing? I think it's a media thing. I think the traditional media just hasn't lent itself to building it properly. Maybe we're humble and we just don't think that we need to build people up. And also, another thing, I'll just let you dovetail on this, is that success, whether it's in music sometimes, definitely Hollywood and acting, you have to be able to export your content in order to be successful. It's very rare that you can be domestic and just be the Tragically Hip.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:34:45
It's wild. Why does Canada, outside of Quebec, why do we hate stars? And I go back to the original statement that I made, which was Canada. Traditionally, it is an incredibly socialist country when it comes to the people who have all the gold. And this will come as no surprise. It shouldn't come as any surprise. We are owned by three companies. Really. Three to four companies. Media information, how it gets disseminated in this country, is owned by Rogers, Bell, Quebecor, a number of others. But those are really the two, three biggest ones. Post Media is another big one. And those are cultural organizations. They're funded culturally. So they are funded by in the case of Post Media, they're funded by Chatham Asset Management, which is basically a Trump company. It's a company run by megadonors and the David Peckers of the world, who's also part of Post Media group, who's under serious indictment in New York as of yesterday for fraud, lying, disinformation, bunch of other shit. And that's the problem that Canada has. Canada has the same problem. The United States has effectively been allowed to own a whole bunch of different companies in the United States and around the world. Steven Harper took away the domestic ownership rules and regulations for media in this country a decade or so ago. And since then, it's been run on purchasing, consolidating a whole bunch of different companies. And they have this very incredible way of empowering people to have the exact same messaging of their religious Ideologies, their political ideologies. And that is what media has turned into. I mean, you don't have to look very far to know that if you are media literate in any capacity, you know that there are really no news outlets like Axios or AP or even Bloomberg for that purposes. Up here in Canada, we have government funded oligarchies that parade around as media. Let's just affect they're all government funded, so they've already lost, right? They've lost the stars in that industry because they're socialists that don't want stars to be bigger than their brands. So they get rid of those stars. They don't empower those stars because they're afraid. They're afraid that one human being, a brand, one individual or an outside brand will become a threat to whatever revenue, whatever influence they may have. Because the one thing that these media companies in Canada really, really fucking need more than anything is to be considered authentically, unbiased, to be considered the arbiter of information. Because that's the society we came from, right? Like, you and I grew up watching the evening news. Do you remember that? You'd come home, you're like, Fuck, that's the truth. That was an hour of truth. You don't get that anywhere anymore. Not from radio, not from television, definitely not from print media, which is dead. So there's no opportunity for stars either, right? Because those are diminishing returns, diminishing businesses, and they're fucking trying so hard to hang on to that relevancy as the arbiters of information, that it's a fucking war against people like you and me, right? At the same time, they're also working with people like you and me, looking for answers to an industry that they totally fucked up and totally decided they didn't want to be a part of when they fired everybody and continue to do so. There's going to be an avalanche of people and by the way, we'll take you info at Crier co there's going to be an avalanche of people that are so much better at them than them, at what they're doing that. It is going to be and it's going to take a couple of years, but it'll be over quick. There's going to be a time when someone's going to put together a collection of people who are way bigger, way better, big stars, trusted in their brand, trusted in their niche that traditional media not only can't afford to have but doesn't want to have because it doesn't fit their Mo. And it will die. It will die. These little radio stations, these little TV news stations, they're dying now. They're dead now. It is going to be lights out at some point in the next three to five years for a lot of them, because the individuals collectively are better than brands individually. It's just the fucking immutable truth of where we're at now, because everybody down here is hungrier than everybody up there.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:39:01
The question posed by Scott McGregor, who has a podcast, I believe, called Hot Trades, why is radio so bad at podcasting? How do they miss the boat? It reminds me of cable companies and Blockbuster missing out on streaming. And I think, Dean, you just answered the question, because it costs a lot of money. You need a lot of runway. Podcast is on demand. It's not live. So it kind of runs as a juxtaposition to what radio is, which is live and local, and podcasting is not. It can be local, but it isn't necessarily you're not going to make your money back by the next quarter and by the next shareholders meeting to get the money into the dividend checks. It takes three years, and radio doesn't even have three years to build a morning show, so they're not going to have time to build a podcast.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:39:45
What do they do wrong in that space? Like, what does the radio do? Man, that's a fucking massive question.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:39:50
They don't invest.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:39:52
They look at it like they can just get their people to do more and that will create a market for themselves. This is the worst fucking thing. We work with radio companies, radio divisions, radio stations on this. None of them are reticent to splash out and buy something if it makes sense. The only thing that makes sense to anybody in traditional media today, and this is the truth, is if you do not have a digital footprint of significance, of critical mass, you're done. If you have decided that you're going to go all in on propping up dead technology, dead industry, when you're not even fucking empowering the people there to do that job properly, you're toast. It's over. So what do they have to do? They need to look at it like it's an entirely new ecosystem, new business, new opportunity, and they have to do the right things first, and nobody is willing to do that. Some are. I think actually Corus is actually pretty good at it, which kills me to say, but they've done something different. It's not about personalities. It's about brands, it's about like true crime, that's about that kind of stuff. So they've kind of harnessed the idea. Some people, Rogers have kind of harnessed the idea.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:41:09
They've got the Frequency Podcast Network, which has some good ones in there. I think a lot of people may be listening to Radio podcasts and they don't even realize that it emanates from a traditional broadcast. If you listen to Jann Arden, I think Jann Arden, I think that kind of goes through Bell and iHeart Media and the Frequency Podcast network. And of course, I think they've got a second one at Rogers for Sportsnet. Curious Cast, which shout out to Dunner, by the way. Good dude, yeah. Who's done a great job with Curious Cast. And I think radio does do podcasts. I just don't think they do it at the local level. And you may not know it, but you're probably listening to a Radio podcast if it comes from NPR or the CBC. They've kind of branched off into separate companies.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:41:50
Yeah, they really have, haven't they?
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:41:51
I think they are involved in podcasting. It just doesn't really feel that way necessarily.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:41:56
Well, it's not about and again, that requires to kind of dig into the minutiae of the question is what do they do wrong? And I go back to it, like I said, with Curious Cast and Chorus, there are some companies that have really embraced the idea of it as a business. And so they've planted their flag in and they've decided to learn about the business by leaning into what podcast might be most profitable or the true crime things that people are that's separate. What we're talking about is, and it's important, if you're a media outlet and you don't have a hopeful, robust online network of content and content providers, you're in trouble. It's fucking number one. You're in trouble. You're like a standalone and you put a bunch of money into a bunch of stations and you've got little stations that you are in trouble, right? There are a couple of companies in and around here that actually have a great digital ecosystem where they service the community and they've got like a decent ecosystem when it comes to their podcast or when it comes to their traditional stuff. But when it comes to how to marry those two spaces, right, you have to literally commit as a company to making everything you put on the radio be digital first. Like everything from your morning show, to features, to your afternoon drive show, to your evening show, to your weekend feature show, to your infomercials to fucking tradeo. It has to land digitally first. And you have to be able to have enough content in that ecosystem to be able to service that traditional outlet. Because let's face it, dude, how many live announcers are on a radio station a day in an average market? Two. Seriously? Two during the entire day? Some none. That's the current ecosystem. And landscape that we live in. So unless someone is willing to go okay, for that to be better, we need to get more of this, right? We need to have a crier co. We need to have a company that produces content that's so much outside the Sound Off podcast we're capable of doing online. But we need to take that and represent it with that traditional outlet. Because the one thing radio will do and television to a lesser extent is everybody streaming. The one thing that radio can do still is get to people immediately and free, right? And if you're not using it to introduce people to different ways that they can experience you, your content, your ecommerce, if you're not using it consistently to tell people where all the good stuff is, you're fucked. Like legitimately fucked. Because everything's on demand. You said it earlier. And I think that that's really super key is that funneling doesn't happen anymore. We're not sending people to malls anymore, right? Home delivery is where it's at. The way that we live, the way we consume, everything has changed to on demand. Everything from ordering a t shirt to listening to something to learning about something. It's when you want, how you want, and when you want to do it. And traditional media offers none of those things anymore. Like zero, right? The second a newspaper gets printed, it's old and no one fucking reads those anymore. The second your newscast is up, it's old. Radio is different a little bit because you can just continually keep updating people as to the changes that you are creating within your own ecosystem. It's fucking awesome that way. But at the same time, you got to commit to listening to something in an appointment fashion. Nobody does that anymore, dude. Human behavior is incredible, right? We have changed. We have rewired the way that we expect to get things now. And if you can't meet people there with your content, if you're still telling them no, you've got to come here, everybody at the same time, no matter how inconvenient for you it is, you're fucked. You just are. And it's easy for me because we don't have people telling us otherwise. We don't. It's easy for you because you can pivot and you can go, Fuck, you know what? I'm going to do whatever I want today, but I'm going to learn how to do that properly. And I'm going to learn to give people things, right? I'm not going to learn to tell people to come here. I'm going to give it to them. I'm not going to give them any excuse to avoid us. Like, none, which is what we do.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:46:05
And I'm going to start the show when I want.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:46:07
Exactly.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:46:09
I would like to just mention, by the way, the last podcast I listened to last night was a podcast from about two years ago and it was from Curious Cast. I think the show is called This Is Why. I don't think the show runs anymore, but again, speaks to the behavior of people in podcasting. A lot of people make the mistake. Oh, the latest episode is the only thing that's important when you have an entire back catalog. People are Googling all the time looking for information. And I saw a stat, 47% of downloads are on old episodes. So for those of you in podcasting, market all your episodes, your best ones, not just your latest one.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:46:44
It's weird, you know, like, everything here is different than everything we've been taught. And can you imagine that? That's why there's so much frustration, I think, with so many people, because everything is different in so many spaces. It's not just tech, it's not just media fucking vaccines. It's so different. It's hard. It's hard for people to wrap their head around different because it's awkward, it's difficult. It's hard to learn new things. It's hard to go fuck scratch. I got to start from scratch. And we kind of do in a lot of different ways. And I would encourage everybody and this is one of the things and obviously it's a bigger conversation and not about podcasting. I would encourage everybody to live by first principles. I really would. When it comes to what you're deciding that you want to do, where you want to go, if you're coming out of traditional media or if you're sick of it, or if you know the end of the runways here, because BuzzFeed just said they're going to use AI to write all of their future articles. No more feedback. You really need to embrace the process of investing in yourself by learning this space. And we have put together a group of scalable solutions for individuals that are trying to get into media, try to create their own trying to be part of a group, be part of a collective where you own your own content. And you're part of a group of people that not only help you monetize your content, but help amplify your content, help find your solutions. Whether it's video, audio, whether it's written word, whatever the situation is, that's what we are. That's what Crier co is. It's not about me or the other partners that are involved in this, the other content providers, and we got a lot of them. It's about you, right? And I say that and I mean it. Which is, I was thinking about this the other day. I'm like, as far as authenticity goes, there's nothing that I believe more in today than giving people in this space a solution to be successful so that they can be happy, provide for their families. It's really it that success to me in this space is, can we change the way that things have been done? Can we empower people in this space to be really fucking good at what they do and how can we help them do it so they feel great about it? Loyal to the process and experience some success. Because, dude, that's fucking reciprocal. If you can find solutions with people, you'll get fed too. Everybody in traditional media, again, doesn't think like that. They think in terms of how much can we squeeze out of this fucking lemon before we throw in the garbage. That's not the currency of the realm. The currency of the realm is, how can we help you? And what do we have? 80, 90 podcasts. We've got a robust network of 50 to 60 bloggers. We're in the process, in the next couple of weeks, announcing a couple of really cool things that will put us in a different space to be able to do that. Right? Because that's the goal. It's not about me. I get fed by the work that I do. And the more I help people, the more things go well for me. I think that's lost. I think it's lost on a lot of people. And it's not like a Jerry Maguire moment where you're like, here's what we got to do. Burn the fucking industry down. I'm the best. It's none of those things. It's none of those things. It was like, I had to fucking figure some stuff out. I was lucky enough to figure it out with some really good people who were better than me at doing this. And isn't that the purpose of of why we're here in an existential sense? Like, to fucking work with people, meet new people, have a good life, enjoy things, work hard, sustain your industry and your family. And along the way, if you find some solutions that might help change the way things are done, so be it. But someone has to step up. Someone's got to step up in this country specifically for the people that love what they do and do this kind of job, and even for the people that do it poorly, right? Like Rebel News or Canada proud. I mean, they're going to get their own legally in the next, I would say two to three months. But, you know, there are that is why those places and things are successful. Because, I mean, everybody's onto it. Everybody's onto the crookery and the collusion in traditional media. Everybody's onto the fucking lies that they told you when they said that you were great and you're going to be fine, and they fire you three months later during Bell's Talk Week. Like, everybody's onto the valueless industry of fucking Canadian media. And it is valueless, and it is trench coat mafia. That's what it is. And that's our advantage. And that's your advantage too, Matt. It's fucking everybody's advantage. There's contactless space, right?
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Matt Cundill (Host) 00:51:23
I think when I got let go from Corus, I thought, you know what, I can build something and start stripping away quarter hours from them. And that's all I wanted to do, was start to strip away quarter hours from traditional media and bring them into my ecosystem where I could own it and not be told what to do, how to direct it, give bad advice to talent, lie to the sales department. We know it's crazy. So I just started out with an idea in 2015 of how do we strip away quarter hours from these people because, frankly, they don't deserve them. How am I doing?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:51:55
Really fucking good. They come to you for solutions now, don't they?
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:52:01
I think they look to me for solutions. They don't call me up, that's for sure.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:52:07
They will be very soon. They do call us, by the way, and you know that because we're having meetings with these people. But I wonder what your motivation is now, right? There's the question. Because I think when guys like you and I leave that space under any negative circumstance, whether it was your own doing or someone else is doing and I know you and I both know how we feel about that industry, but are you still operating, getting out of resentment? Like, are you still doing this because you're like, fucking I want all the quarter hours, or are you doing this because you're like, I fucking love this space. I love how dynamic it is, and I love the partnerships and the friendships and the relationships and the fact that it's fucking so new.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:52:42
No, they'll lose all the quarter hours on their own. They're perfectly capable of doing it all by themselves. They do not need my help. When somebody is in the process of of terminating their business career or whatever it is, I got some great advice, and that's don't hand them the rope. They'll figure out what to do with the rope themselves. I think what happened with me is it became a lot what you were saying, it was like, can we help people? And a lot of people a lot of people helped me in 2016. And from that, I said, okay, just going to pay it back. Not paid back tons, but I'll always be paying it back. Podcasters are very good at helping one another. It's what they do.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:53:21
And so different than that traditional space. Like like when you and I were cutting our fucking teeth and radio, if you didn't have the competitive spirit of a fucking hungry lion, you were toast, right? If you didn't shit on the competition, find ways to demoralize them. So every time they cracked a microphone, you weren't doing your job. You weren't. This space is about, how can I help that person? Because when you help them, they're like, hey, I want to introduce you to my audience. And you're like, great. I'd love to meet your audience. I'd love to introduce you to mine too, because we're doing the same things. Have you found these solutions? No, I haven't. Oh, I found this one great. You found that one great. Well, let's work together and find more solutions, because we're both looking for the same result, right? Because the landscape is so incredibly different. And if it weren't for helping, if it weren't for people going, happy to explain that to you, no problem. Happy to talk to you about it, we wouldn't be in a position where we could do the same thing for other people. And that means we're not in a position to fulfill our business plan. And if you ask me, the biggest problem that traditional space has, it comes down to that one thing. They stopped helping people. Because it's not about helping people.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:54:32
They have absolutely no interest in building up their morning show personalities to the next level because then they realize they'll have to pay them. Which then leads you to why we have Greg in the afternoons or Polly.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:54:44
On weekends doing five different stations. Do you notice that? And everybody's radio bio that's still in the business, which is great. I do wish them all the best. I hope they can hang in there and get whatever they can out of it, too, before it fucking dies. But I get a kick out of it because, like, every radio person and these are big radio personalities that usually could only be capable of doing one show a day because it takes 10 hours to prep, four hour show. If you're good at your job. It's like mornings on this station, afternoons on that station, middays on this station, part of this group of companies. And I'm like, that's where we're at. And there's nothing local, nothing cool, which is the service of the licenses. Like, you get a radio license in this country if you commit to sign an agreement to service that city where your license is for your radio station. There are cities in this country that don't have any local programming at all, and I would say half of them are that way. So, I mean, it's just a fucking joke.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:55:37
So the roster at Crier Media is somewhat built, but always looking for more. How does one apply?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:55:45
We need a semen sample first. You email us, tell us, why do you love what you love? Why do you want to do what you're doing? What are you doing? And you can email us at info at DeanBlundell.com, you can email us at info@crier.co. DM me, DM us, Ryan Locke, anybody. You. I mean, if you're in that space, and this is the advice I would give anybody that's kind of, if you're in that space of wanting to do something for yourself, own your own content, be your own boss. Monetize your own stuff, amplify your own stuff, and you're in that space where you're like, I am tired of working for people that demean the entire process and shit on me while I do it. Don't give me the resources to be able to be successful at what I do, then you need to change. And we're happy to be there for those people. I don't care who you are, what you do, what your content is within reason. Obviously, we have a desire to give other people the same solutions that we've been able to find for ourselves. We also have a desire to be able to create a very disruptive media entity in this country. And that's something that obviously we're doing and we've been doing for a while. And we also have a desire to be able to help people. I mean, you said it earlier, if people didn't help you, you wouldn't be in the place that you're in to help other people. That is something that I'm shocked that I love to be. Truthful is, we've got a few of those stories at Crier. A few podcasters, a few bloggers, a few people who have their own brands, because really we're just a brand amplification revenue company, right? Everybody owns their own stuff at Crier. That's the other kind of cool part about it is we have people who came to us broken. We have people who came to us in bad shape financially. We have people who came to us with no solutions to bring together their new day jobs with what they love to do. People that came out of media, people that had no media experience. We've got people that have no writing experience writing for us because they're great writers and they're passionate about what they do. And so if you're passionate about what you do and creating content and we want to give you as little direction as possible to harness the things that you're most passionate about, we just want to be able to surround you with the solutions that you need to be able to be successful and be sustainable for a long period of time. Because the market has changed, my dudes and my ladies. Everything's changed in this space. You can't operate unless you know people that can help you find those solutions. And again, isn't that what we're supposed to be doing? Isn't that what traditional media was supposed to do, was find good people, support those people, to do a tremendous job for them that brought them the solutions they were looking for in their lives, the goals that they were looking for in their lives. It's a little more existential than you work for me, I pay you. Shut up. You do exactly what I want. We don't work like that.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:58:29
I really hope I got the email right on the screen info@crier.co.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:58:32
Yeah, you fucking nailed it.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:58:33
Because if you don't, people will flood the YouTube with comments about what an idiot I am for getting that wrong. Now they'll have to find another reason.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:58:41
One of the things I love about this podcast so far? I don't see any comments. I'm not a comments guy.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:58:45
Oh, there's comments. I'm just not showing them.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:58:45
Good.
Matt Cundill (Host) 00:58:45
Because it will derail my interview. This is my show. It's my interview. Some of the stuff that's been contributed here is okay.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 00:59:00
That's the thing. I remember when Twitter made its appearance. I'm old enough in this world to be able to say, okay, I was on the radio and a big swinging dick at the time with a 40 share going, what is this Twitter machine here? And Kelly Beveridge, our lovely PR person, was like, you kind of got to do it. I'm like, all right. So 2009, I joined Twitter, and I'm like- I remember we finished a break, and I grabbed my phone, and I looked at Twitter, and I never really did that because I fucking hated my phone too. I got a cell phone in 2008, for fuck's sake. And all of a sudden, I'm on Twitter, and I'm like, Read this thing. What you just did sucked. You suck. And I'm like, no, I don't want to look at that. Same reason why I wouldn't allow that text screen to come in where it's like Text us at star, one, nine, two, and you can have your say, and we'll read your shit. I'm like, Fuck that. I don't want any of those people in my day. And now we live in a world where it's like, literally a fire hose of that shit towards us, so. But I've changed enough where it's like, I don't even pay attention to the comments anymore. We have a very robust comment section with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of comments, and some of them aren't good. Some of them are great. But that's another thing that's changed, where it's like, I've had to change with it and get better at being able to get feedback as I'm doing something, because we never had that radio. You could fucking finish a radio break back in 2004. Hang up your fucking headphones and go, I'm the king. That was the best. You would have no feedback for days, and it could have been shit. Like, seriously, that's what changed with that business. That's why a lot of those people are scared today, because they're afraid to fucking finish a break and then look at their phone and go, you suck. It's death for a lot of those people, that instant feedback.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:00:41
Actually, this person, Sean here, who has made a comment, he says I'm your only viewer, so he thought I was talking to him. But the truth of the matter is that this is going out on about six different platforms right now. So I want to say hi to Howard and Jen and Elaine, MG, Sherry, Ashley, and Big Chris, who's watching right now.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:01:00
Big Chris.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:01:02
And by the way, all of a sudden, I feel like the teacher at Romper Room saying hi to everybody.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:01:09
Well, that's the thing, right? And another change is, when you're doing something live on social media, you're fucking doing it. You can't get out of it. This is it. I mean, you might have one or two people watching, but you're not doing it live just because you want a live audience. This goes 74 different places, four or five different podcast catchers and fucking hosting services. Apple, Google, Spotify. I mean, these are people that don't understand how this works either. But they're like, I'm your only viewer. Which is fine. Sean's probably a good dude. But again, this is something that nobody understands. So you get in there. Let's say you're coming out of traditional space, and you're like, I'm going to do a podcast. You throw it up in your social media. You got a couple of thousand people on there, and one person watches, you get demoralized. But you're not doing it for that. And these are, like, things that people need to start understanding in this space. You're not doing it for a live audience. You're not doing it for one viewer. You're doing it for you. And then you're going to strategically put it in places where lots of people can listen or watch. That's what this space is.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:02:08
Yeah, I mean, this will be out in podcast form probably by the end of the week or early next week. I'll put one out so there will be a completely different listening experience that will happen just between the ears. I know people are watching right now. I personally find watching two guys talking about this boring, which is why I'll have this edited. I'll have it cut up. I'll put some nice music in it, repurpose it. We'll take it down from whatever it is, like 80 minutes. I'll probably drop it down to about 68 minutes. Just taking out umms and ahhs and your coughs and wheezes and other things. By the way, one thing I really like about Crier Media, and that's there's really no exclusivity because you own your IP. You can still run things the way you want. You're asked to contribute. That's all you're being asked to do is really to contribute to the ecosystem of Crier Media. But this idea of exclusivity is gone. I cannot believe that it still exists in this day and age. If you need to be compensated for exclusivity, what's the cost of it? Well, I think Joe Rogan has it, about $200 million.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:03:12
It makes sense. If someone said to us, hey, listen, we'll give you $200 million, but you're exclusive. You and I would both go, okay. But when it comes to this stuff, no. I mean, fuck, what's the one question people ask when you onboard them at Sound Off Media? What's the one question? Who owns it?
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:03:28
How do I make money?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:03:29
And then do I own this? And you're like, yeah, fuck, of course you own it. It's yours.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:03:35
Not only do you own it, you own the ad inventory.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:03:36
It's all yours.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:03:37
Yeah, that's all yours.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:03:39
And I'm shocked that we operated that way for a long time with NDAs and non competes and all the other bullshit and exclusivity and contracts. That was a fucking long haul for people to feel indentured to a company, a brand, a group of individuals. That's like one of the fucking greatest selling points of what we do, right? You know, this fuck, we talk about it all the time. We don't want to own anybody or anything other than the umbrella that enables people to fucking work and amplify and monetize. That's the only thing we care about. We want you to own your shit. Because when you own your shit, you're accountable for it in terms of quality and in terms of legality as well, which is kind of cool, right? Like, if you get into trouble with your shit, you get into trouble with your shit. We're just your agents. We just monetize your stuff. And that's really how we look at what we do, is that we're an agency on behalf of really good content providers. It's what we do. It's what we are. I just happen to be one of them. Doesn't that make Crier Media socialist cooperative? Sean Webb no, it just makes us fucking smart. Makes us smart to be able to give people the lift.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:04:42
Yeah. I don't know that just because it's a cooperative that it becomes socialist. Cooperation is not like something that's owned by the left. The hell is wrong with people? And I'm not singling you out, Sean. Thank you for listening. But this is where people are, like, this is cooperation. Cooperation is not like something that is owned by Jagmeet Singh. It's not. And sometimes Justin Trudeau will practice a little bit of it. And Pierre Poilievre never cooperates! Which may or may not be true, but still, people, man, isn't it awesome?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:05:15
You can put out like this. We can be doing a podcast on Daffodils right now, and somebody like, yeah, that's nice until you get a yellow one and an orange one. And the yellow reminds me of Justin Trudeau is a total fucking coward. And the orange one is Jagmeet Singh and that NDP fucking commie. No worries. I wanted to rib him after his comments. I love it, Seany, but yeah, we live in that world, don't we? Which, again, makes it really hard for old cats like me. There are people that do content now that they get a bad comment or they get some shit feedback or they get a bad tweet from someone and they're like, I'm not cut out for this. I fucking look for it. I invite it, I ask for it because I know how this fucking machine works.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:05:57
Yeah. So this is a cooperative. And I really like that, by the way. I'll tell you a good story. Nathan Baylor. What's his podcast? Minimal Filters, I think it's called.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:06:07
Yeah. On the network. Yeah.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:06:09
So what happened was he came to me, I helped him get started. Didn't charge him, didn't put him on my network, nothing like that. He disappears. Next thing you know, I'm getting an order from you saying, hey, can you put this podcast up? Right? So he basically left me and then went to you. And then I called him up and said, now you're back with me. Right? Why don't you just come to me, and I would have put your podcast- what are you doing? Because I never wanted to get into a- I didn't want my company to be competing podcast wise with your company. I know, you do more than just a podcast. You're actually more into YouTube and more into the video side of things, which is great because you're ahead of the game. But I didn't want to be like, oh, we're going to fight over the personalities and pull them from A to B. Well, you get something better over here with Dean or you get something better with Matt. That's not it. That's not how it works. And to that, exclusivity is not something that will ever work with, I think, a lot of creators starting up, unless of course, you're getting a big check, at which point we say, take the check. But if you're getting $45,000 a year from Bell and they're not letting you start a podcast, I would rethink that. I think maybe you could maybe give up that salary and you could start to build a podcast. And how long would it be if you've got a great idea before you make that money back and more?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:07:23
Do you know how many people that work for those media outlets, traditional media outlets like Rogers, Bell, Quebecor, all those companies? Pattison? Do you know how many of them have anonymous podcasts on their own?
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:07:35
Lots.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:07:36
Hundreds. And they're like deathly afraid that their employer, that gives them barely livable wage is going to find out. Kids, everybody, listen very carefully to Uncle Dean and Uncle Matt. It's over. Go do whatever the fuck you want. Press the issue. Do whatever you want to do with your life. Do whatever you want to do with your content under your own name. Legally, they have no fucking foot to stand on, and they're going to turn the lights out soon anyway. And if you don't get started, if you want to be in this space, like if you're one of those people like my buddy Ian, who left traditional media and became an accountant at the age of 43, which is awesome, by the way, I'm not laughing because I look down on it. I'm laughing because it's like, fuck, anybody can do anything they want. But if you want to stay in this game, man, you got to cooperate with people. You need to find people that have the ability to be able to push that rock down the hill for you to get it started. And the rest is really up to individuals. But to your point, at some point it is going to be very, very apparent to individuals that are in that traditional space and they are, believe me, all and you know this dude all asking these questions like when is the end? When is it over? At what point is this industry not this industry anymore? What point are they going to turn things off, stop servicing or funding certain things? Because it is coming and they can lie to you and tell you that it ain't. But every truth that has been predicted about that industry being in negative territory across the board has come true every year for the past basically ten years. When it comes to jobs availability, the way that they post jobs, how much money is available for any job in that space, it's a joke. And people are getting paid $25 to do a four hour radio show. It's just the way that that market is. And I can't tell anybody. I don't know if you're like me where you're like, I hate talking about this because it sounds so negative. These are just facts, right? These are just facts that you have to fucking dig out.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:09:35
I have to correct you. $18 for a six hour show.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:09:42
Oh, is it $18?
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:09:44
I know a company that does it at $18.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:09:47
What are you getting for $18 over 6 hours?
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:09:49
6 hours of voice tracks?
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:09:51
And how good are those going to be?
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:09:52
Because I'm willing to take they are not good.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:09:55
They are bad. Very bad.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:09:57
Coming up next, your local weather. You know what? You can get that right here in 3 seconds.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:10:03
That's sad. I mean, you get what you pay for. That's always been the case specifically in that space. But fucking that's $18. That's a deal. Should do it.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:10:12
Well, I'll continue to highlight the great stuff that radio does on the Sound Off podcast because that's what we set out to do. And there is, by the way, lots of great radio being done, just not everywhere.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:10:23
So smaller markets.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:10:24
Yeah, I'll tell you. Yes, I had Randy Chase on a few weeks ago and her and Vinny are doing a great show. And it's clear across Alberta, it's on the Stingray stations, but again, it's spread out across about a bunch of radio stations. 18. Some stations may or may not have anybody in them necessarily, but still a good show.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:10:41
Just do more of that.
Matt Cundill (Host) 01:10:42
Yeah, I think radio has realized that they need some personalities and they need teams. And if you roll them out to a few markets, hey, I'm fine with it. I'm fine getting Fearless Fred on the radio in the evening. I'm fine getting Tyler and lynch from C Fox for 2 hours. I think you can do a very nice voice track show when it's two people together and you're doing content, it doesn't matter that it's not live. I got past that anyway. There's some talent out there that can do that very, very well. There are some who could do it very badly. This guy, for instance. I could not do it. Know, some people were weak at it, some people were very good at it. And it really just depends what you put on the radio and when. But you need to be developing talent. And that's, I think, really what you've been saying for the last little while. We're not developing a lot of talent. We will develop your talent here at Cryer Mediate, though.
Dean Blundell (Guest) 01:11:29
Yeah, that's the goal. You want to bring in individuals and people that want to be able to fucking move that mark right for themselves. And if you can find everything in life, it may be finished with a little existential stuff, but everything in life is what you fucking make it. And there are lots of answers out there for people. Like, tons of answers out there for people. We're one of them. We're a really good one. And there's nobody like us out there when it comes to helping people. Transition into a profitable space for yourself and owning your stuff. And I think that there are solutions. And I think, as I said earlier, it's not the industry of assets that is the problem. It's how they're used. Radio is still fucking super vibrant. It can be, and it's just being used wrong. And if you're in that business and if you're in a traditional space, radio, television, print, the last part of the equation to be able to stay in that industry happy is, are you working with good people? Right? Are you working with people that promote you, that want you, that need you, make you feel like you're part of the process, make you feel important, that enable you in your work to feel fucking really good about what you're doing? Are they treating you like a partner? Because if they're not, then you don't want to work for them or with them. This space is so much bigger than that space now. It is. I mean, independent content across this country dwarfs nationally syndicated, what you would consider news outlets or legitimate legacy news outlets dwarfs it. But there's, like, fucking 5 million of us, and everybody's doing their own shit. Cooperate, work together, find solutions with great groups of people, and you will be okay. But, fuck, you got to get started. Now, I don't know if you've thought about this. We've done a couple of studies. If you're not in a position to be able to serve yourself digitally in a big, bad way, as a brand, as a company, as an individual, in the next, again, in the time that it takes to transition out of that space again, you're in trouble, too. So get started, kids. Get started. And we're here for all of it. Info@crier.co. Any questions you have, happy to help.
Tara Sands (Voiceover) 01:11:29
The Sound Off podcast is written and hosted by Matt Cundill. Produced by Evan Surminski. Social Media by Courtney Krebsbach. Another great creation from the Soundoff Media Company, there's always more at soundoffpodcast.com.